“Don’t call them Nazis because it’s too correct & people still hate Nazis” is not as good of an argument as you seem to think it is. I would happily call them Iron Guardsmen, Arrow Cross, Cagoulards, Senoritos- but nobody KNOWS about those groups outside of a few history geeks like us. Hell, I’ll call them fucking BOLSHEVIKS cuz they are a lot like Bolsheviks too; but we are still pretending the Bolsheviks were a “left wing” movement. It is what it is. NAZI gets the point across to the most people.
You can call them Nazis if you like, if you want to make believe that this will achieve anything 🤷♀️It doesn't as we have seen here in Europe where a wave of right wing fascism is rolling over the continent. No amount of calling them Nazis has managed to stem the tide. As I wrote in this piece that you obviously did not bother to actually read, people might hate Nazis but they don't understand the similarities between Nazis and modern fascism, so instead of being able to address the actual problems with their ideologies, you're forever stuck in a discussion whether or not they are the same. And people become accustomed to hearing their vile talking points until they're normalized.
If that's what you want keep doing it and watch them grow in numbers. We have.
I don’t care what THEY think or say. Way past giving even the teeny tiniest sliver of a fuck what any of those FUCKING NAZIS “think” about anything I say or do. Fuck them, they are Nazis in their hearts & their minds.
Why would we care about the opinions of Nazi's? We don't call them Nazi's to try and get them to stop being Nazi's or to make some kind of point. We're calling a spade a spade, and these spades are Nazi's.
I was in bed with the flu so I didn't have the opportunity to answer here, so here goes.
Those who really adhere to the core fascist believes in MAGA really don't care what you think they are because they believe (just as the Nazis did btw) that they are on the right side of my argument isn't about them but about how it influences the public discourse of politics and the damage it does to society over time as it makes them look more and more normal in the eyes of the wider public.
Their talking points are normalized while you're stuck in the impossible quest of proving that everyone who is in MAGA is a Nazi. More and more people start ignoring this talking point. Society shifts to the right and more people find it acceptable to vote for them.
What I'm saying is, if you want to fight them, stop doing it by shouting Nazi, start talking about how they and their politics will harm society and people specifically so people can relate the issues to their own situation and lives.
This is a great article thanks for sharing. I’ve noticed the conservative subs’ reaction to this terminology and I felt it was ineffective but wasn’t sure why. They have started calling us yahtzees. And racist. Not sure what that’s about but it’s clear it is not helping.
"Christo-fascists" is a good way to formulate this movement. Dorothee Soelle helped me see that reality 30 years ago in her writings. We've had it in the USA for a long time, but now is the time to make it plain. I didn't love the beginning of this article (about the word Nazi), but I found your argument convincing. Thanks for the thoughtful argument here.
Absolutely. They're Nazi's. They don't care what we call them because they don't care about anything but themselves. And most of them think socialism, communism, Marxism, and fascism all mean the same damn thing. So what do we care if the term Nazi does or does not 1)hurt their feelings or 2)change their minds?? Fascist Nazi's is what they are and I don't care how they feel or don't feel about anyone calling them that.
Trying for force a religion that apparently is false and hurts people...
And yes, their policies will cause mass deaths..
To me.. this may be shared by sympathizers more than anything..
Oh, let me say this tho, call them all the names.. cristo- whatever and Nazi..
Cuz the words hit different for different folks..
But here in America, where we used to be able to advertise our business any way we wanted, if u say it's dei, I hear they threaten legislation..
So if it's for the sake of Nazis, or people who think it's cool..
Ha it wouldn't matter how many it is.. but let's be clear.. when this coup is over I say we introduce legislation where they can't own property and can not vote.. we understand hate crimes.. and Nazi is just another way to say they hate.. they hate differences, they hate equality.. and hate America..
So I don't want anyone who we can find out hates some people, to have a job or position of authority where they supposed to serve all.. like any..
It's not the same as saying someone black or brown or religious people or whatever shouldn't have jobs.. this is an actual disconnect they have with reality, that all should get love.. and they make it totally clear..
So I don't care if it is triggering, good!
Don't care if they hearing it a lot.. yeah and if we don't do something soon, the good humans are going to have to stop the bad by any means necessary..
I guess the largest lie Nazis tell us that they can win.. but no.. I can teach you not to hate or kill a person who is a different race, or sex, or religion.. I can teach you rightfully not to hurt those people.. they strengthen you..
But Nazi is literally a person who weakens our systems and hates..
It's open season on em..
Take they money, get over on them in biz, don't be faithful in relationships.. show us you ain't one.. stay far away.. cuz the hate for Nazis, is not like hating something a person is born with.. fascists or whatever people call em.. are terrible people.. for whatever reason believing we don't all deserve a full life..
Like I said it's quantifiable they shouldn't even get to have most jobs.. cuz jobs serve all.. and they are hindered.. if it's a protection job like military or cops, they are letting people die.. or perhaps helping them to a faster death, to that discriminated group..
Don't Americans wish we could deport or jail some, even if so the rest can split up what they had?? Ha ha well finally you have ur group.. nobody can stop you..
It's not crazy to want them dead..
If you believe in quantum physics, pray, meditate.. hope they die as much as you can.. spread the word!!!
But let's not let any think it will be tolerated or that they can make this known and not make them a target!!
And if you all do hope they die.. meditating and praying.. quantum physics says they will just die one day.. like car accidents or heart attacks..
I wish we had a website to keep track.. like that black mirror episode, hated in the nation.. you all deserve religious freedom!!!
So pray they choke and die and that your future generations don't get served poorly by humans who hate.. let's hope we remove them completely from the world!!!
Ha ha too bad some thought it would be cool a while tho... Ha ha they done f-ed around.. now they gonna find out..
So as I say. Please label them.. please make it clear.. any way you can!!
If you have to sell something bad at a markup and dont wanna feel bad?
Find a Nazi..
Pray they catch fire and that their homes explode..
I honestly believe in quantum physics.. there was a movie like called, what in the beep do we know?
But yes, you all focus on the same goal.. they will die.. maybe make a site!
Ha I can teach you to be round good people, but being a Nazi means you ain't good.. we past that..
So if ur friend cringe when you say Nazi, maybe unload that cheap stuff.. sell to them..
That's my two cents.. may not be rich.. but I think we all bout to share in some wealth being reshuffled in soon huh?
My argument isn't that they're not using Nazi symbolism or that there is no overlap. What I'm saying is that calling them Nazis gets you stuck in a futile discussion about if or if not they're the same. Futile because you will never be able to prove that they are or that they aren't, as there are apparent differences besides the similarities.
So, the debate achieves nothing but making their talking points more and more mainstream, normalizing them and desensitizing people, allowing MAGA or whatever fascist movement (in Germany, it's the AFD. In Austria, the FPÖ) to get more and more followers as society becomes more and more right-wing.
I'm saying stop falling into that trap and focus on fighting the policies and the mindset instead.
You are not debating them you are humiliating them. They Go Low We Go High is the problem with the left. We always want to play nice and we get pummeled. Like the song goes A Time For War A Time for Peace. Someone should have told Kamala that. If she would have put the damn pom poms down for a minute she would have won. Insane Clown throws punches non-stop hoping you will go into a defensive shell. But he cannot take a punch. One punch (Treason? Immunity?) he would drop like a rock. She couldn't or wouldn't and now we have this shit. Damn shame.
This is nonsense. Of course there is a debate. For the last 35, nearly 40 years we've had a very public ongoing debate here in Austria over wether or not the FPÖ are Nazis. All this discussion has achieved is to shift the Overton window further and further to the right with the other parties picking up their talking point.
If you think that you're humiliating a fascist by calling him a Nazi you're deluded.
Nobody is asking anyone to go high, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote. Is calling someone a Nazi going low? That's fucking ridiculous. I can think of 20 different ways to attack someone that are lower and will hit more accurately. If you're entire spiel is trying to shame people into not voting for fascism by calling them Nazis you will lose the fight.
Of course it is going low. And no it doesn't make them stronger. Sometimes debate is called for when dealing with a reasonable person but other times you just have to show disrespect and just blow them off. Maybe someday MAGA will have the same connotation that Nazi does now. But that time is not now. Biden tried calling them Ultra MAGA for awhile. It only ended up as branding on t-shirts and such. That won't happen if you call them Nazi. Not in the US anyway. Maybe you saw where Kanye tried and it didn't go well for him and it vanished in a matter of hours. You can debate a reasonable person but pointless when someone is obviously fucking with you.
And it can be disastrous as we saw with Kamala who was so intimidated of being called a woke radical left lunatic she wouldn't take a stand on anything other than abortion. Not a peep out of her about climate crisis or LGBTQ. Her attempt to portray herself as a gun enthusiast was nothing short of ludicrous. She allowed the Insane Clown madman to blame her for the drastic inflation that was clearly the fault of the pandemic and Insane Clown's clownish response to it. Same for Afghanistan when it was Insane Clown who effectively surrendered when he released 5000 Taliban prisoners. Not a peep about Insane Clown's treasonous criminal acts or even pleading like a bitch for immunity. Not a peep about his 4 years not for a second taking being president seriously to the point where he basically threw the election preferring a civil war be fought over him. She was reduced to smiling and waving and silly platitudes. We're Not Goin' Back! When You Know What You Stand For You Know What to Fight For! Kamala stood for nothing and fought for nothing and that was nothing short of political malpractice.
The fact that you don't see that the time is now is the reason they're so successful.
You can keep talking about Kamala and her politics or campaign all you like, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I said or wrote and is therefore not a something I'm going to discuss here.
Calling them Nazis and not MAGA is not why democracy lost. Showing weakness in opposition to their show of strength is why we lost. I suspect that applies in Austria as well or anywhere for that matter..
You have a point here, but I don't think these shameless scumbags are capable of feeling humiliated. They go before the public, accused of everything from alcoholism, rape, even pedophilia, and they still raise their hands to take an oath (although they don't really mean it) of office, then proceed to do as much damage as they possibly can.
They relish being demonized as villains, it makes them feel important and powerful. Nazis are a symbol of strength & power to them so it's a compliment. Both Nazi & fascist sound crazy & paranoid to the apolitical & apathetic masses. So I agree focusing on the actions of the Trump regime . Talk about Social Security, food & drug safety. Discrimination.
If you call them Nazis they will fuck with you, a common response being the National Socialist horseshit that Nazis being a left wing ideology and hence you are the Nazi. But while they will advertise themselves as MAGA (case in point Biden for a while was calling them Ultra MAGA and it just went straight to branding of t-shirts and such) they won't advertise themselves as Nazi (case in point just recently Kanye tried hyping Nazi shirts and in a matter of hours it vanished)
Fascism in the US has been tied to Christianity since its founding shortly after Hitler rose to power in 1933. There was Father Coughlin who called for a Christian nation on his radio broadcast. There were paramilitary groups like the Silver Shirts and the Christian Front. Very much like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers of today. They wrapped themselves up in being good, Christian patriots while collaborating with the Nazis who funded their operations in the US and used Nazi written propaganda. The Nazis even used the US CONGRESS to give pro Nazi speeches on the floor of both chambers. These scripts would then be added to the Congressional Record and sent out to MILLIONS Of Americans through the congressional mail. Over 2 dozen members of Congress were participating in this scheme, which was corroborated with documents from both sides of the Atlantic. Look up Hamilton Fish, Ernest Lundeen, William Langer, George Deatherage, and the German spy, George Sylvester Viereck.
No MAGA members may not be directly “Nazis” but I they espouse much of the same principles as the America First Movement did in the 1930’s. They use the same mantra and pound on the Bible just like then. They hated Jews and people of color and foreigners. One of them proposed building a wall to keep them out. The America First movement was supported by Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh. Ford’s portrait hung in Hitler’s office. They talked about overthrowing the government and installing Gen. George Van Horn Moseley. I am sure the people listening to Father Coughlin on the radio and agreeing with what he said didn’t think they were Nazis sympathizers either. Or those who attended Lindbergh rallies thought they were fascists. But they were.
This may not be a perfect parallel but it’s damn close. Those who have wrapped themselves up in the MAGA movement will have to reckon with their complicity some day, or maybe we will bury this chapter of our history like so many chapters that are to painful to remember. We will gloss over and white wash it and sanitize it until it doesn’t mean anything and we will learn nothing. No maybe they aren’t Nazis in the Hitler sense. They are MAGA, a new and improved version of what we saw in our own country, our own government almost 100 years ago.
Thank you for this detailed and useful analysis. I agree.
The argument in my article isn't about them but about how it influences the public discourse of politics and the damage it does to society. Basically the bystanders who are not yet MAGA.
Over time the discussion makes them look more and more normal in the eyes of the wider public. Their talking points are normalized while you're stuck in the impossible quest of proving that everyone who is in MAGA is a Nazi. More and more people start ignoring this talking point. Society shifts to the right and more people find it acceptable to vote for them.
What I'm saying is, if you want to fight them, stop doing it by trying to make people equate them with Nazis and hope for the best, start talking about how they and their politics will harm society and people specifically so people can relate the issues to their own situation and lives.
I think that's already happening. There's far more being said about the illegal abuses being foisted on to us by all those EO's and DOGE for example. As for influencing those who aren't MAGA yet (but might be on the edge), I don't know if they're even reachable! If they are on the fence, it means they're paying attention only to Fox News, and possibly Newsmax and Breitbart to boot.
Unfortunately in a world of sound bites on cable TV and TikTok videos there isn’t a lot of time for discourse to deal with the broader issues. And a lot of that is due to education. 21% of Americans are illiterate, 54% only have a reading comprehension level of 6th grade. They don’t understand civics, economics or history and probably have not read a book since high school. It’s hard to discern fact from fiction without a basic background and understanding let alone critical thinking skills. They are easily manipulated and are easily influenced by misinformation.
They don’t listen or believe what you say. They might not be MAGA but support policies. You don’t get pick and choose.
"Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi party, not because they hated Jews, but out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed. That word is "Nazi." Nobody cares about their motives anymore. They joined what they joined. They lent their support and their moral approval. And, in so doing, they bound themselves to everything that came after.
Who cares any more what particular knot they used in the binding?"
No, I'm not kidding. If you tried reading and understanding what I'm saying, you'd spare yourself the hysterics and unnecessary outrage. Nobody is defending them
Oh grow up I read your easy bake article. All I took from it is that the author feels compelled for some reason to disillusion the reader about the presence of literal nazis in our country. And It’s not about using their tactics it’s not about the similarities in their rise to power, it’s about how the fascist right is flying literal nazi flags and their leader did a literal nazi salute. But go off, write whatever articles you want. Call me hysterical. I’ve been on substack yelling at nazis and their centrist sympathizers for years and I don’t plan on stopping
Also, the author uses the word 'created' with AI. That's not creation, that's using technology which is 1.) very bad for the environment and 2.) trained on the stolen works of art and photography. Like-- hard to take her seriously when she does shit like that.
I have a hunch that you're right about this, given how nobody who disagrees has brought up how people are so desensitized to people being called Nazis that a common response is "not everybody you dislike is a Nazi".
Brilliantly stated. I’m in complete agreement. The lack of fact checked news, poor teaching of history and seemingly zero teaching in school of how our government here works has had just the effect you describe. Danke schoen! Restacking!
Thank you! You nailed it beautifully. This is why so many Americas still think there will be elections or that the courts will be able to stop them. They don’t understand how fascism works, what the signs are when it moves in, or what it’s going to be like to live in it.
I think you are right. The labels we give them, nazi, fascist, weird, get thrown back in our face or worn as a mark of defiance (witness Musk’s two Hitler salutes).
I say this as an outsider: you have to attack him where he is vulnerable - what his tariffs will do to cost of living and business, how Trump and Musk will cost real people real jobs, how Trump is beholden to tech billionaires, how Musk is the real power behind the throne.
In America atm Trump is riding roughshod over your laws and Constitution. That is a message you also need to try to sell, without the labelling. But it is a harder message to get through.
Enlightening perspective. Thank you. Clarified also that our fascists really are Christian fundamentalists. Warped schooling and no regard for science.
“Don’t call them Nazis because it’s too correct & people still hate Nazis” is not as good of an argument as you seem to think it is. I would happily call them Iron Guardsmen, Arrow Cross, Cagoulards, Senoritos- but nobody KNOWS about those groups outside of a few history geeks like us. Hell, I’ll call them fucking BOLSHEVIKS cuz they are a lot like Bolsheviks too; but we are still pretending the Bolsheviks were a “left wing” movement. It is what it is. NAZI gets the point across to the most people.
You can call them Nazis if you like, if you want to make believe that this will achieve anything 🤷♀️It doesn't as we have seen here in Europe where a wave of right wing fascism is rolling over the continent. No amount of calling them Nazis has managed to stem the tide. As I wrote in this piece that you obviously did not bother to actually read, people might hate Nazis but they don't understand the similarities between Nazis and modern fascism, so instead of being able to address the actual problems with their ideologies, you're forever stuck in a discussion whether or not they are the same. And people become accustomed to hearing their vile talking points until they're normalized.
If that's what you want keep doing it and watch them grow in numbers. We have.
I don’t care what THEY think or say. Way past giving even the teeny tiniest sliver of a fuck what any of those FUCKING NAZIS “think” about anything I say or do. Fuck them, they are Nazis in their hearts & their minds.
Exactly
Why would we care about the opinions of Nazi's? We don't call them Nazi's to try and get them to stop being Nazi's or to make some kind of point. We're calling a spade a spade, and these spades are Nazi's.
Correlation is not causation.
I was in bed with the flu so I didn't have the opportunity to answer here, so here goes.
Those who really adhere to the core fascist believes in MAGA really don't care what you think they are because they believe (just as the Nazis did btw) that they are on the right side of my argument isn't about them but about how it influences the public discourse of politics and the damage it does to society over time as it makes them look more and more normal in the eyes of the wider public.
Their talking points are normalized while you're stuck in the impossible quest of proving that everyone who is in MAGA is a Nazi. More and more people start ignoring this talking point. Society shifts to the right and more people find it acceptable to vote for them.
What I'm saying is, if you want to fight them, stop doing it by shouting Nazi, start talking about how they and their politics will harm society and people specifically so people can relate the issues to their own situation and lives.
This is a great article thanks for sharing. I’ve noticed the conservative subs’ reaction to this terminology and I felt it was ineffective but wasn’t sure why. They have started calling us yahtzees. And racist. Not sure what that’s about but it’s clear it is not helping.
"Christo-fascists" is a good way to formulate this movement. Dorothee Soelle helped me see that reality 30 years ago in her writings. We've had it in the USA for a long time, but now is the time to make it plain. I didn't love the beginning of this article (about the word Nazi), but I found your argument convincing. Thanks for the thoughtful argument here.
Thank you Hans!
How about fucking no.
They are fascists and Americans think Nazi when you say that word.
So they are fucking Nazis.
Finally a “n” word for white people.
Absolutely. They're Nazi's. They don't care what we call them because they don't care about anything but themselves. And most of them think socialism, communism, Marxism, and fascism all mean the same damn thing. So what do we care if the term Nazi does or does not 1)hurt their feelings or 2)change their minds?? Fascist Nazi's is what they are and I don't care how they feel or don't feel about anyone calling them that.
Yeah. We can't reason them out of anything if they didn't reason their way into this mess.
They're Nazis. Calling a spade a spade is, I think, most important for the quiet folks trying to put their heads in the sand.
Priceless!
Ha I for one do see all the hallmarks of Nazis..
Concentration camps, we getting Gbay.
Laws to hate..
Trying for force a religion that apparently is false and hurts people...
And yes, their policies will cause mass deaths..
To me.. this may be shared by sympathizers more than anything..
Oh, let me say this tho, call them all the names.. cristo- whatever and Nazi..
Cuz the words hit different for different folks..
But here in America, where we used to be able to advertise our business any way we wanted, if u say it's dei, I hear they threaten legislation..
So if it's for the sake of Nazis, or people who think it's cool..
Ha it wouldn't matter how many it is.. but let's be clear.. when this coup is over I say we introduce legislation where they can't own property and can not vote.. we understand hate crimes.. and Nazi is just another way to say they hate.. they hate differences, they hate equality.. and hate America..
So I don't want anyone who we can find out hates some people, to have a job or position of authority where they supposed to serve all.. like any..
It's not the same as saying someone black or brown or religious people or whatever shouldn't have jobs.. this is an actual disconnect they have with reality, that all should get love.. and they make it totally clear..
So I don't care if it is triggering, good!
Don't care if they hearing it a lot.. yeah and if we don't do something soon, the good humans are going to have to stop the bad by any means necessary..
I guess the largest lie Nazis tell us that they can win.. but no.. I can teach you not to hate or kill a person who is a different race, or sex, or religion.. I can teach you rightfully not to hurt those people.. they strengthen you..
But Nazi is literally a person who weakens our systems and hates..
It's open season on em..
Take they money, get over on them in biz, don't be faithful in relationships.. show us you ain't one.. stay far away.. cuz the hate for Nazis, is not like hating something a person is born with.. fascists or whatever people call em.. are terrible people.. for whatever reason believing we don't all deserve a full life..
Like I said it's quantifiable they shouldn't even get to have most jobs.. cuz jobs serve all.. and they are hindered.. if it's a protection job like military or cops, they are letting people die.. or perhaps helping them to a faster death, to that discriminated group..
Don't Americans wish we could deport or jail some, even if so the rest can split up what they had?? Ha ha well finally you have ur group.. nobody can stop you..
It's not crazy to want them dead..
If you believe in quantum physics, pray, meditate.. hope they die as much as you can.. spread the word!!!
But let's not let any think it will be tolerated or that they can make this known and not make them a target!!
And if you all do hope they die.. meditating and praying.. quantum physics says they will just die one day.. like car accidents or heart attacks..
I wish we had a website to keep track.. like that black mirror episode, hated in the nation.. you all deserve religious freedom!!!
So pray they choke and die and that your future generations don't get served poorly by humans who hate.. let's hope we remove them completely from the world!!!
Ha ha too bad some thought it would be cool a while tho... Ha ha they done f-ed around.. now they gonna find out..
So as I say. Please label them.. please make it clear.. any way you can!!
If you have to sell something bad at a markup and dont wanna feel bad?
Find a Nazi..
Pray they catch fire and that their homes explode..
I honestly believe in quantum physics.. there was a movie like called, what in the beep do we know?
But yes, you all focus on the same goal.. they will die.. maybe make a site!
Ha I can teach you to be round good people, but being a Nazi means you ain't good.. we past that..
So if ur friend cringe when you say Nazi, maybe unload that cheap stuff.. sell to them..
That's my two cents.. may not be rich.. but I think we all bout to share in some wealth being reshuffled in soon huh?
My argument isn't that they're not using Nazi symbolism or that there is no overlap. What I'm saying is that calling them Nazis gets you stuck in a futile discussion about if or if not they're the same. Futile because you will never be able to prove that they are or that they aren't, as there are apparent differences besides the similarities.
So, the debate achieves nothing but making their talking points more and more mainstream, normalizing them and desensitizing people, allowing MAGA or whatever fascist movement (in Germany, it's the AFD. In Austria, the FPÖ) to get more and more followers as society becomes more and more right-wing.
I'm saying stop falling into that trap and focus on fighting the policies and the mindset instead.
You are not debating them you are humiliating them. They Go Low We Go High is the problem with the left. We always want to play nice and we get pummeled. Like the song goes A Time For War A Time for Peace. Someone should have told Kamala that. If she would have put the damn pom poms down for a minute she would have won. Insane Clown throws punches non-stop hoping you will go into a defensive shell. But he cannot take a punch. One punch (Treason? Immunity?) he would drop like a rock. She couldn't or wouldn't and now we have this shit. Damn shame.
This is nonsense. Of course there is a debate. For the last 35, nearly 40 years we've had a very public ongoing debate here in Austria over wether or not the FPÖ are Nazis. All this discussion has achieved is to shift the Overton window further and further to the right with the other parties picking up their talking point.
If you think that you're humiliating a fascist by calling him a Nazi you're deluded.
Nobody is asking anyone to go high, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote. Is calling someone a Nazi going low? That's fucking ridiculous. I can think of 20 different ways to attack someone that are lower and will hit more accurately. If you're entire spiel is trying to shame people into not voting for fascism by calling them Nazis you will lose the fight.
Of course it is going low. And no it doesn't make them stronger. Sometimes debate is called for when dealing with a reasonable person but other times you just have to show disrespect and just blow them off. Maybe someday MAGA will have the same connotation that Nazi does now. But that time is not now. Biden tried calling them Ultra MAGA for awhile. It only ended up as branding on t-shirts and such. That won't happen if you call them Nazi. Not in the US anyway. Maybe you saw where Kanye tried and it didn't go well for him and it vanished in a matter of hours. You can debate a reasonable person but pointless when someone is obviously fucking with you.
And it can be disastrous as we saw with Kamala who was so intimidated of being called a woke radical left lunatic she wouldn't take a stand on anything other than abortion. Not a peep out of her about climate crisis or LGBTQ. Her attempt to portray herself as a gun enthusiast was nothing short of ludicrous. She allowed the Insane Clown madman to blame her for the drastic inflation that was clearly the fault of the pandemic and Insane Clown's clownish response to it. Same for Afghanistan when it was Insane Clown who effectively surrendered when he released 5000 Taliban prisoners. Not a peep about Insane Clown's treasonous criminal acts or even pleading like a bitch for immunity. Not a peep about his 4 years not for a second taking being president seriously to the point where he basically threw the election preferring a civil war be fought over him. She was reduced to smiling and waving and silly platitudes. We're Not Goin' Back! When You Know What You Stand For You Know What to Fight For! Kamala stood for nothing and fought for nothing and that was nothing short of political malpractice.
The fact that you don't see that the time is now is the reason they're so successful.
You can keep talking about Kamala and her politics or campaign all you like, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I said or wrote and is therefore not a something I'm going to discuss here.
Calling them Nazis and not MAGA is not why democracy lost. Showing weakness in opposition to their show of strength is why we lost. I suspect that applies in Austria as well or anywhere for that matter..
You have a point here, but I don't think these shameless scumbags are capable of feeling humiliated. They go before the public, accused of everything from alcoholism, rape, even pedophilia, and they still raise their hands to take an oath (although they don't really mean it) of office, then proceed to do as much damage as they possibly can.
They relish being demonized as villains, it makes them feel important and powerful. Nazis are a symbol of strength & power to them so it's a compliment. Both Nazi & fascist sound crazy & paranoid to the apolitical & apathetic masses. So I agree focusing on the actions of the Trump regime . Talk about Social Security, food & drug safety. Discrimination.
If you call them Nazis they will fuck with you, a common response being the National Socialist horseshit that Nazis being a left wing ideology and hence you are the Nazi. But while they will advertise themselves as MAGA (case in point Biden for a while was calling them Ultra MAGA and it just went straight to branding of t-shirts and such) they won't advertise themselves as Nazi (case in point just recently Kanye tried hyping Nazi shirts and in a matter of hours it vanished)
Tell MAGA to stop wearing swastikas.
Fascism in the US has been tied to Christianity since its founding shortly after Hitler rose to power in 1933. There was Father Coughlin who called for a Christian nation on his radio broadcast. There were paramilitary groups like the Silver Shirts and the Christian Front. Very much like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers of today. They wrapped themselves up in being good, Christian patriots while collaborating with the Nazis who funded their operations in the US and used Nazi written propaganda. The Nazis even used the US CONGRESS to give pro Nazi speeches on the floor of both chambers. These scripts would then be added to the Congressional Record and sent out to MILLIONS Of Americans through the congressional mail. Over 2 dozen members of Congress were participating in this scheme, which was corroborated with documents from both sides of the Atlantic. Look up Hamilton Fish, Ernest Lundeen, William Langer, George Deatherage, and the German spy, George Sylvester Viereck.
No MAGA members may not be directly “Nazis” but I they espouse much of the same principles as the America First Movement did in the 1930’s. They use the same mantra and pound on the Bible just like then. They hated Jews and people of color and foreigners. One of them proposed building a wall to keep them out. The America First movement was supported by Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh. Ford’s portrait hung in Hitler’s office. They talked about overthrowing the government and installing Gen. George Van Horn Moseley. I am sure the people listening to Father Coughlin on the radio and agreeing with what he said didn’t think they were Nazis sympathizers either. Or those who attended Lindbergh rallies thought they were fascists. But they were.
This may not be a perfect parallel but it’s damn close. Those who have wrapped themselves up in the MAGA movement will have to reckon with their complicity some day, or maybe we will bury this chapter of our history like so many chapters that are to painful to remember. We will gloss over and white wash it and sanitize it until it doesn’t mean anything and we will learn nothing. No maybe they aren’t Nazis in the Hitler sense. They are MAGA, a new and improved version of what we saw in our own country, our own government almost 100 years ago.
Thank you for this detailed and useful analysis. I agree.
The argument in my article isn't about them but about how it influences the public discourse of politics and the damage it does to society. Basically the bystanders who are not yet MAGA.
Over time the discussion makes them look more and more normal in the eyes of the wider public. Their talking points are normalized while you're stuck in the impossible quest of proving that everyone who is in MAGA is a Nazi. More and more people start ignoring this talking point. Society shifts to the right and more people find it acceptable to vote for them.
What I'm saying is, if you want to fight them, stop doing it by trying to make people equate them with Nazis and hope for the best, start talking about how they and their politics will harm society and people specifically so people can relate the issues to their own situation and lives.
I think that's already happening. There's far more being said about the illegal abuses being foisted on to us by all those EO's and DOGE for example. As for influencing those who aren't MAGA yet (but might be on the edge), I don't know if they're even reachable! If they are on the fence, it means they're paying attention only to Fox News, and possibly Newsmax and Breitbart to boot.
Unfortunately in a world of sound bites on cable TV and TikTok videos there isn’t a lot of time for discourse to deal with the broader issues. And a lot of that is due to education. 21% of Americans are illiterate, 54% only have a reading comprehension level of 6th grade. They don’t understand civics, economics or history and probably have not read a book since high school. It’s hard to discern fact from fiction without a basic background and understanding let alone critical thinking skills. They are easily manipulated and are easily influenced by misinformation.
They don’t listen or believe what you say. They might not be MAGA but support policies. You don’t get pick and choose.
"Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi party, not because they hated Jews, but out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed. That word is "Nazi." Nobody cares about their motives anymore. They joined what they joined. They lent their support and their moral approval. And, in so doing, they bound themselves to everything that came after.
Who cares any more what particular knot they used in the binding?"
A.R. Moxon
Nicely put.
Eh. Imma fucking call em Nazis.
Goddamn right.
Are you kidding? He did the nazi salute on stage. They run eugenicist twitters. Who is really defending these freaks in 2025?
No, I'm not kidding. If you tried reading and understanding what I'm saying, you'd spare yourself the hysterics and unnecessary outrage. Nobody is defending them
Oh grow up I read your easy bake article. All I took from it is that the author feels compelled for some reason to disillusion the reader about the presence of literal nazis in our country. And It’s not about using their tactics it’s not about the similarities in their rise to power, it’s about how the fascist right is flying literal nazi flags and their leader did a literal nazi salute. But go off, write whatever articles you want. Call me hysterical. I’ve been on substack yelling at nazis and their centrist sympathizers for years and I don’t plan on stopping
Also, the author uses the word 'created' with AI. That's not creation, that's using technology which is 1.) very bad for the environment and 2.) trained on the stolen works of art and photography. Like-- hard to take her seriously when she does shit like that.
I have a hunch that you're right about this, given how nobody who disagrees has brought up how people are so desensitized to people being called Nazis that a common response is "not everybody you dislike is a Nazi".
Christian fundamentalists with desires of world domination?
I call him The Nazi Leader because;
Musk threw up 2 (TWO) Nazi salutes during rally celebrating the inauguration.
Only Nazis make Nazi salutes.
Trump hired Musk
Ergo he is The Nazi Leader even if he isn’t a Nazi himself.
Brilliantly stated. I’m in complete agreement. The lack of fact checked news, poor teaching of history and seemingly zero teaching in school of how our government here works has had just the effect you describe. Danke schoen! Restacking!
Thank you Elizabeth 🙏
Thank you! You nailed it beautifully. This is why so many Americas still think there will be elections or that the courts will be able to stop them. They don’t understand how fascism works, what the signs are when it moves in, or what it’s going to be like to live in it.
I think you are right. The labels we give them, nazi, fascist, weird, get thrown back in our face or worn as a mark of defiance (witness Musk’s two Hitler salutes).
I say this as an outsider: you have to attack him where he is vulnerable - what his tariffs will do to cost of living and business, how Trump and Musk will cost real people real jobs, how Trump is beholden to tech billionaires, how Musk is the real power behind the throne.
In America atm Trump is riding roughshod over your laws and Constitution. That is a message you also need to try to sell, without the labelling. But it is a harder message to get through.
Enlightening perspective. Thank you. Clarified also that our fascists really are Christian fundamentalists. Warped schooling and no regard for science.
If they were nazis there would be better cars.